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Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 11 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1480<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
Re: Deserts<BR>
Re: Deserts<BR>
Re: Munchkins<BR>
Re: Prize vs Salvage<BR>
Military vs Snakes<BR>
Re: Munchkins<BR>
Re: Mr. Zeigler's first SJG book?<BR>
Re: Snakes!<BR>
Re: Prize vs Salvage<BR>
Re: Munchkins<BR>
Re: Munchkins<BR>
Re: Mr. Zeigler's first SJG book?<BR>
Y2k breakdown<BR>
Elmore Artwork in T4<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
Vs: Active RPGing<BR>
hot car problem<BR>
Re: Munchkins<BR>
Re: Deserts<BR>
Re: Salvage one<BR>
Re the Gaming Industry<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 04:02:56 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
>Here in wonderful Texas where I teach, we also have a NO cell phone or<BR>
pager<BR>
>policy.<BR>
>It is very strictly enforced. Possession causes confiscation and the device<BR>
>will only be returned to the parent  after a fee is paid to the campus<BR>
>police. Of course for my particular part of the school district its not<BR>
rich<BR>
>parents trying to get in touch with kids, its fellow gang members paging<BR>
>their buddies, which led to this policy<BR>
<BR>
    [Delurk]<BR>
    A few years ago I decided to go back to school and finish my formal<BR>
education here in Australia. After a lapse of 14 years it was something of a<BR>
surprise to find that some of the guys were carrying on (loud) mobile phone<BR>
conversations during class time. After two months of being unable to<BR>
concentrate on the curriculum I dropped out again, it may be me but I could<BR>
have throttled that guy.<BR>
    jim L.<BR>
    [Relurk]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:12:15 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts<BR>
<BR>
>(My definition of "pretty f*****g cold": when it gets down to -40, as it<BR>
>usually does at least once during the winter up here. That's *really*<BR>
>f*****g cold!)<BR>
<BR>
- -40 is just a bit chilly. When I was a lad in Saskatoon I just threw on<BR>
another lawyer of clothing and skied to school. No problem as long as you<BR>
dress and behave appropriately. Now -60 is cold.<BR>
<BR>
Here in Hogtown people seem to feel that -10 is cold. Leaving aside the<BR>
whole question of Eastern decadence, a large part of the problem is that<BR>
people's clothing, buildings, and behaviour totally ignore the weather. No<BR>
heatlocks in the buildings, so there are lots of cold draughts. And no<BR>
perception on Bay Street that a dress suit and raincoat, or short skirt and<BR>
heels, aren't the most sensible clothing for subzero temperatures and icy<BR>
streets.<BR>
<BR>
Which would be amusing if these weren't the same types who control our<BR>
economy. I feel so much better, knowing my future is partly in the hands of<BR>
someone without the sense to cover up when they get cold :-(<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Take a noble from the Core and bring them to the Marches. Sit back<BR>
and laugh.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:08:31 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/11/99 5:10:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Please define "pretty f*****g cold". I'm going to be spending a week<BR>
 in Vegas this coming March, and wouldn't mind knowing what kind of weather<BR>
 to expect. :) >><BR>
<BR>
Cool. Please E mail me a week or two before you come to town, and maybe I can <BR>
play tour guide (and maybe get some Traveller in. I'm starving for some FTF <BR>
play...).<BR>
<BR>
Seth<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:07:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> How do people deal with that?  I don't really care what game you are<BR>
> playing:  how do you go about introducing new people to a complex,<BR>
>and unfamiliar setting?  I have to admit that I originally used to just<BR>
>wing it, but the games I tended to run weren't particularly coherent,<BR>
>and this time I'm trying to focus on a small astrographical area and a<BR>
>very intense power struggle.<BR>
<BR>
I'm a huge fan of handouts. I like giving the players handouts, no matter<BR>
what game we're playing. To prepare them for a recent Traveller campaign, I<BR>
wrote up a movie review for an anti-Solomani action movie, and a piece on<BR>
the music scene (both are available at my site: http://www.pil.net/~semo ).<BR>
I also gave them other bits I had written, which are also on the site.<BR>
<BR>
In my own experience, handouts work very well, especially handouts which<BR>
have little bearing on the rules, but which help to establish the<BR>
background. I'm a handout nut though. In one traveller campaign five years<BR>
ago or so (geez, it's been that long?) I made a tape of a repeating distress<BR>
signal from an ancient alien ship, which worked extremely well at setting<BR>
the mood for the players during the session in which they encountered the<BR>
vessel.<BR>
<BR>
Your own mileage may vary, of course.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:15:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Prize vs Salvage<BR>
<BR>
- --- Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> --- "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <snip><BR>
>  <BR>
> > In the case of a vessel which has been stolen, but was taken <BR>
> > as legitamate prize, the 3 month probate on vessels IMTU <BR>
> > applies; The lien holders or owners may reclaim the ship <BR>
> > within three months of it's recovery, assuming the theft <BR>
> > was within one year prior to recovery. If they do, they must <BR>
> > pay fair salvage value (10% of fair market value at time of <BR>
> > theft) plus costs (Charter fees plus food, fuel and ammo <BR>
> > expenses) as a finder's fee. And the theft report to the <BR>
> > local admirality at point of discovery of the theft must <BR>
> > accompany such claims.<BR>
>  <BR>
> That assumes that stolen velssels have the information sent <BR>
> through the x-boat network and would be a good time frame <BR>
> in that light. However, while three months is enough to find out <BR>
> if it was stolen, it is not always enough time for the owners <BR>
> to get there to reclaim the property. That depends on how <BR>
> far away they are as well as how long ago the vessel was stolen <BR>
> and should be taken into account by the Admiralty in setting the <BR>
> probate time frame.<BR>
> <BR>
> Also IMTU stolen propery is stolen property. If you find a <BR>
> ship in space with all hands dead and it turns out that the <BR>
> ship had been hijacked years ago then the ship is still stolen <BR>
> property and belongs to the original owners or their heirs, <BR>
> unless paid of by insurance. In that case, the insurance <BR>
> company owns it. The finders are still entitled to a prize <BR>
> fee of 10% of the vessels appraised value. If the old owners <BR>
> cannot pay, then the vessel must be sold and the prize paid. <BR>
> The remainder goes to the owners or their heirs. If the vessel <BR>
> had been stolen so long ago that no owner or heir can be found <BR>
> in a reasonable time, as determined by the Admiralty court, then <BR>
> it becomes the sole property of the finders.<BR>
> <BR>
> Terry<BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
> Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:16:54 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Military vs Snakes<BR>
<BR>
I was going to save that list of the various militaries vs the <BR>
snake and lost it.<BR>
<BR>
Would someone be so kind as to shoot me copy privatly of that post?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:33:20 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
> Ah!  I do know an obnoxious female gamer that was never a drag-along then!<BR>
> <BR>
> My best friend in college was just such a person.  She had these magic dice,<BR>
> she'd roll up almost all 18's and stuff, and if you gave everyone points<BR>
> instead, she'd still manage to get the perfect character.  But her character<BR>
> was almost always a beautiful young female and she always fell in love with<BR>
> the bad guy, unless the bad guy was a totally stupid, ugly brute, and then<BR>
> she'd make life hell for the other PC's if they tried to do in the bad guy.<BR>
> Ugh!  She was my best friend and I couldn't throw her out of the games, but<BR>
> she drove me NUTS!!!<BR>
> <BR>
> She's the sort of person who would be sure that she could find the embers of<BR>
> Anakin smouldering away inside of Darth's black armor.  And she'd get the<BR>
> whole party killed trying!  Oh, and she quit a few games in anger because<BR>
> she didn't get her man...<BR>
> <BR>
> Kiri ::shudders:: at all the dark memories.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, she sounds like a thwarted Romantic.  Why not give her the romantic<BR>
/tragic roleplaying it sounds like she wanted?<BR>
<BR>
> She also got mad at me when she read my novel because the characters don't<BR>
> all get complete justice and don't end up neatly paired off at the end.<BR>
<BR>
They don't? :-(  Bummer. I'm just a bit of a romantic, too. ;-)<BR>
(OTOH, loose ends make for sequels ;-)<BR>
<BR>
> I was convinced this was her way of getting back at S, who was a very avid<BR>
> gamer, for dragging her to all these games.  She also got very angry at me<BR>
> because she liked Elfquest and she expected every game she played in to use<BR>
> Elfquest elves-- and I didn't.  Don't.  Won't.  Richard Pini completely<BR>
> offended me personally in the early 80's and I haven't looked at anything EQ<BR>
> related since.<BR>
<BR>
That's a shame. I liked Elfquest back when it came out in the 80s.<BR>
It seems a pity to reject an author's works because you don't personally<BR>
like the author. I remember hearing that someone on the TML didn't read<BR>
Anne McCaffrey's works because they met her at a Con and were offended<BR>
by something she said. I prefer to separate the author (or actor's) <BR>
personality from the quality of his/her works.  E.g., Alec Baldwin was<BR>
fun to watch as "The Shadow", but whenever he opens his mouth in public<BR>
about politics, he's an offensive idiot.<BR>
<BR>
> That usually happened.  But unfortunately, not with D-Ko (we nicknamed her<BR>
> this after the bratty princess C-Ko in the anime "Project A-Ko", whom she<BR>
> resembled and acted like, right down to the horrible cooking, terrible<BR>
> screaming, and the being the love object of a number of women who should<BR>
> have had better taste.)<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't that B-ko?  I thought C-Ko was the villainess who kept inventing<BR>
all these super-powered battlesuits to take on A-ko with.<BR>
<BR>
				--Cynthia<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:38:44 -0500<BR>
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mr. Zeigler's first SJG book?<BR>
<BR>
At 11:39 PM 12/10/1999 -0500, Jon wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>GURPS Greece.  And you all want to go out and buy a copy, if you don't<BR>
>have one already.  It's useful for those, um, Hellenophile cultural<BR>
>revivialists<BR>
>who colonized several worlds in, uh, Magyar sector.  Back during the<BR>
>Rule of Man.  That's right. . .<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It's actually a dandy book!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bill Rutherford<BR>
worj@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:56:05 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Snakes!<BR>
<BR>
- --- Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
> Just sent you a copy of the Snakes post. Enjoy! ;)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:00:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Prize vs Salvage<BR>
<BR>
I have no idea why this one came out again.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.<BR>
<BR>
On a side note, I agree with Leonard. There does have to be some <BR>
kind of time frame after which even stolen property becomes fair <BR>
game. I believe he said 100 years. Sounds good to me.<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
<BR>
- --- Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> --- Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> > --- "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <snip><BR>
> >  <BR>
> > > In the case of a vessel which has been stolen, but was taken <BR>
> > > as legitamate prize, the 3 month probate on vessels IMTU <BR>
> > > applies; The lien holders or owners may reclaim the ship <BR>
> > > within three months of it's recovery, assuming the theft <BR>
> > > was within one year prior to recovery. If they do, they must <BR>
> > > pay fair salvage value (10% of fair market value at time of <BR>
> > > theft) plus costs (Charter fees plus food, fuel and ammo <BR>
> > > expenses) as a finder's fee. And the theft report to the <BR>
> > > local admirality at point of discovery of the theft must <BR>
> > > accompany such claims.<BR>
> >  <BR>
> > That assumes that stolen velssels have the information sent <BR>
> > through the x-boat network and would be a good time frame <BR>
> > in that light. However, while three months is enough to find out <BR>
> > if it was stolen, it is not always enough time for the owners <BR>
> > to get there to reclaim the property. That depends on how <BR>
> > far away they are as well as how long ago the vessel was stolen <BR>
> > and should be taken into account by the Admiralty in setting the <BR>
> > probate time frame.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Also IMTU stolen propery is stolen property. If you find a <BR>
> > ship in space with all hands dead and it turns out that the <BR>
> > ship had been hijacked years ago then the ship is still stolen <BR>
> > property and belongs to the original owners or their heirs, <BR>
> > unless paid of by insurance. In that case, the insurance <BR>
> > company owns it. The finders are still entitled to a prize <BR>
> > fee of 10% of the vessels appraised value. If the old owners <BR>
> > cannot pay, then the vessel must be sold and the prize paid. <BR>
> > The remainder goes to the owners or their heirs. If the vessel <BR>
> > had been stolen so long ago that no owner or heir can be found <BR>
> > in a reasonable time, as determined by the Admiralty court, then <BR>
> > it becomes the sole property of the finders.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Terry<BR>
> > __________________________________________________<BR>
> > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> > Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
> > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
> Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:20:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
>> My best friend in college was just such a person.  <snip><BR>
>> She's the sort of person who would be sure that she could find the embers<BR>
of Anakin smouldering away inside of Darth's black armor.  And she'd get the<BR>
whole party killed trying!<BR>
<snip><BR>
>><BR>
>Hey, she sounds like a thwarted Romantic.  Why not give her the<BR>
romantic/tragic roleplaying it sounds like she wanted?<BR>
><BR>
We often did.  But she had to be the center of attention and sometimes we<BR>
couldn't suss which baddie she'd like best, and you basically had to<BR>
roleplay 1:1 with her a lot to keep her satisfied.  It was hard to keep her<BR>
AND a party from clashing.<BR>
<BR>
>> She also got mad at me when she read my novel because the characters<BR>
don't all get complete justice and don't end up neatly paired off at the<BR>
end.<BR>
>><BR>
>They don't? :-(  Bummer. I'm just a bit of a romantic, too. ;-) (OTOH,<BR>
loose ends make for sequels ;-)<BR>
><BR>
I have this problem... "I am willing to suspend my disbelief, but not to<BR>
hang it by the neck until dead."  (This is actually an ikaros quote, from my<BR>
second husband, the gay one who's now among my best friends...)<BR>
<BR>
My novel is too long, complex, and twisted for all the loose ends to get<BR>
wrapped up completely, and I do like to write different stories about the<BR>
other characters after one story ends.  I also have justice, but not<BR>
complete justice... for instance, instead of having the rightful heir get<BR>
everything sie should have had to begin with from the usurper, sometimes<BR>
they go out and make a bigger haul on their very own.  She didn't always<BR>
like that.<BR>
<BR>
>> I was convinced this was her way of getting back at S, who was a very<BR>
avid gamer, for dragging her to all these games.  She also got very angry at<BR>
me because she liked Elfquest and she expected every game she played in to<BR>
use Elfquest elves-- and I didn't.  Don't.  Won't.  Richard Pini completely<BR>
offended me personally in the early 80's and I haven't looked at anything EQ<BR>
related since.<BR>
>><BR>
>That's a shame. I liked Elfquest back when it came out in the 80s. It seems<BR>
a pity to reject an author's works because you don't personally like the<BR>
author. I remember hearing that someone on the TML didn't read Anne<BR>
McCaffrey's works because they met her at a Con and were offended by<BR>
something she said.<BR>
><BR>
It was Keven, and MZB.<BR>
<BR>
Generally I agree with you, but EQ has a lot of other offensive associations<BR>
for me too... in terms of a club my first husband was part of, RP being such<BR>
an ass around women, etc.  It just links to a whole host of bad memories,<BR>
and then later I heard that they linked all their storylines to Barry Blair,<BR>
whose stuff I don't really care for, so there was no reason to go back.<BR>
<BR>
>> That usually happened.  But unfortunately, not with D-Ko (we nicknamed<BR>
her this after the bratty princess C-Ko in the anime "Project A-Ko", whom<BR>
she resembled and acted like, right down to the horrible cooking, terrible<BR>
screaming, and the being the love object of a number of women who should<BR>
have had better taste.)<BR>
>><BR>
>Wasn't that B-ko?  I thought C-Ko was the villainess who kept inventing all<BR>
these super-powered battlesuits to take on A-ko with.<BR>
><BR>
No, THAT person (the villainess) was B-Ko.  We always wondered if she was<BR>
the daughter of Lex Luthor since the ending of the first A-ko show strongly<BR>
implied that A-ko was the daughter of Lois and Clark Kent.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan         93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out here who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                     -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:45:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
I'm guilty of this.  after having read A.E. Van Vogt's work on Nexialism,<BR>
Non-Aristotlilism and General Semantics, I was very much dismayed and<BR>
offended when L. Ron hubbard became buddies with Van Vogt and his wife only<BR>
to steal the man's ideas and publish them as "Dianetics".<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> >That's a shame. I liked Elfquest back when it came out in the 80s. It<BR>
seems<BR>
> a pity to reject an author's works because you don't personally like the<BR>
> author. I remember hearing that someone on the TML didn't read Anne<BR>
> McCaffrey's works because they met her at a Con and were offended by<BR>
> something she said.<BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:11:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Mr. Zeigler's first SJG book?<BR>
<BR>
From: <JFZeigler@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> GURPS Greece.  And you all want to go out and buy a copy, if you<BR>
>don't have one already.  It's useful for those, um, Hellenophile<BR>
>cultural  revivialists who colonized several worlds in, uh, Magyar<BR>
>sector.  Back during the Rule of Man.  That's right. . .<BR>
><BR>
> :-).<BR>
<BR>
Cool. I'd kind of looked through it some time ago at one of the local gaming<BR>
stores. I might take another look.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:21:41 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Y2k breakdown<BR>
<BR>
My FLGS is selling the Illumaniti Card Game's "Y2k" supplement to <BR>
punters on the basis that if they don't get it their original cards <BR>
will stop working next year!<BR>
- -----<BR>
<BR>
I was also asked to apologise on their behalf to those of you who <BR>
emailed (to Best Books & Games) asking about 2nd hand Traveller <BR>
material a month or two ago, as they have been unable to reply as <BR>
their computer blew up). However, they are planning to have a web <BR>
presence next year.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:24:23 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Elmore Artwork in T4<BR>
<BR>
Anyone got an idea how much the original  of one of the Elmore B&W <BR>
drawings from T4 would be worth?<BR>
<BR>
A friend of mine has come into the original of the one on p91 and is <BR>
wondering how much he could sell it for if he wanted to!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:36:35 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
At 11:42 -0500 11/12/99,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> > Hmm. A CJ Cherryh Alliance/Union sourcebook for GURPS - now that <BR>
>I would buy!<BR>
><BR>
>I'd rather have one for the area the Chanur stories take place!<BR>
<BR>
Well, it's the same Universe, so we could have both.<BR>
<BR>
Dom (Dreaming)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:14:54 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Active RPGing<BR>
<BR>
> It's quite possible the majority aren't playing right now, but they<BR>
> could be if they really wanted to, by email if nothing else.<BR>
> <BR>
I'm actually in the middle of a dinner break in a day long game we're playing today. So I'm kind of semi-actively playing even now. ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:14:30 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: hot car problem<BR>
<BR>
>This was one of the fields of my copper mate.  If the<BR>
<BR>
>dealer purchased the vehicle in good faith and the <BR>
>police cannot prove otherwise, he's just as<BR>
>innocent as the next fella.  <BR>
<BR>
Remember that there are two sets of legal issues here,<BR>
criminal and civil.  The dealer may be innocent of<BR>
crime, but still liable to the purchaser.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:32:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> That usually happened.  But unfortunately, not with D-Ko (we nicknamed her<BR>
>> this after the bratty princess C-Ko in the anime "Project A-Ko", whom she<BR>
>> resembled and acted like, right down to the horrible cooking, terrible<BR>
>> screaming, and the being the love object of a number of women who should<BR>
>> have had better taste.)<BR>
><BR>
> Wasn't that B-ko?  I thought C-Ko was the villainess who kept inventing<BR>
> all these super-powered battlesuits to take on A-ko with.<BR>
<BR>
I remember damn near *dieing* trying to hold in the laughter when I saw<BR>
those "family" scenes near the end. A-ko's mom ironing that costume,<BR>
and her dad sitting at the breakfast table in the blue suit with a red<BR>
tie. And wearing glasses.  Gee, I wonder when Clark got married and how<BR>
he wound up assigned to Japan. <BR>
<BR>
At least it "explained" A-ko's abilities. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:38:16 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>(My definition of "pretty f*****g cold": when it gets down to -40, as it<BR>
>>usually does at least once during the winter up here. That's *really*<BR>
>>f*****g cold!)<BR>
><BR>
> -40 is just a bit chilly. When I was a lad in Saskatoon I just threw on<BR>
> another lawyer of clothing and skied to school. No problem as long as you<BR>
> dress and behave appropriately. Now -60 is cold.<BR>
><BR>
> Here in Hogtown people seem to feel that -10 is cold. Leaving aside the<BR>
> whole question of Eastern decadence, a large part of the problem is that<BR>
> people's clothing, buildings, and behaviour totally ignore the weather. No<BR>
> heatlocks in the buildings, so there are lots of cold draughts. And no<BR>
> perception on Bay Street that a dress suit and raincoat, or short skirt and<BR>
> heels, aren't the most sensible clothing for subzero temperatures and icy<BR>
> streets.<BR>
<BR>
Hell, back when I was in Boy Scouts, we once got back from a winter<BR>
camping trip to find that it'd hit -20 F while we were out camping.<BR>
It'd been pretty calm so we'd hardly even *noticed* that it was extra<BR>
cold! <BR>
<BR>
Cold and calm is *easy*. Cold and windy is a problem. And God help you<BR>
if it is cold, windy and you are *soaking wet*. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:32:53 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage one<BR>
<BR>
>It _wasn't_ handwavium [oh, the horror]!  It was Monohydrozine!<BR>
Note that a monohydrogen engine (burns atomic hydrogen into molecular<BR>
hydrogen, H+H=>H2) is actually the most efficient chemical rocket engine one<BR>
can<BR>
imagine (though we have no idea how to do this), so the words were almost<BR>
right...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:25:21 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re the Gaming Industry<BR>
<BR>
>Consider yourself lucky that you are near a good store.  I am sure that<BR>
>plenty of other DP9 fans are jealous of you.<BR>
><BR>
you can shop there, too! http://www.boscos.com<BR>
<BR>
but, be warned... their games Guru quit about 2 month ago... no new DP9<BR>
since then.<BR>
<BR>
>>Almost everybody now plays one of the following, at least part time: D&D,<BR>
>>Palladium Games, GURPS, Hero, WW-Storyteller. Idicators of a market<BR>
>>correction.<BR>
><BR>
>I would remove Hero from that list.  Champions was very popular in the<BR>
>past, but it doesn't remotely get the sales that L5R or Deadlands has now.<BR>
><BR>
I said PLAY, not PURCHASE. I know a lot of Champions 4th ed players (It's<BR>
easily more popular than GURPS locally, as far as numbers of players goes,<BR>
about 3:2 vs GURPS). What people PLAY is indicative of the market<BR>
correction. L5R, Deadlands, and others really are not THAT common to play...<BR>
<BR>
One of the things that has been a problem with Hero's sales is that they<BR>
are aimed at GM's. In a typical Hero group, IME, one or two players have<BR>
the base book, and only the GM has anything more, for a group of 5-7<BR>
players.<BR>
<BR>
GURPS, most of the players will have the base book (Same sized group,<BR>
abnout 3 copies plus the GM's copy), and many of the supplements have<BR>
materials very clearly presented to the players, but this is not so clearly<BR>
defined as in the Hero layouts.<BR>
<BR>
AD&D2 (and soon D&D3) has a one-book for players, 3 for GM mentality; when<BR>
running events at boscos, I could count on every player having a PH. If I<BR>
was running Ravenloft, at least one would have the RL book. Similer for the<BR>
other settings.<BR>
<BR>
Palladium sells. Mostly to munchkins. Many of whom really are under 16. For<BR>
many more, they are intellectually but not physically under 16. Most<BR>
Palladium groups I've seen or heard of a re munchkins on parade, out on a<BR>
killing spree.<BR>
<BR>
>>  Linking Trav to one of the Survivors of the industry die-off insures it<BR>
>>will survive. Much as *I* may think GURPS mechanics are Dated, annoying,<BR>
>>and counter intuitive, it has the 3rd largest representation in stores of<BR>
>>any line of RPG materials I've seen; GT therefore is a guarantee of<BR>
>>Traveller surviving in some form for a long while.<BR>
><BR>
>I disagree with your comment on the mechanics of GURPS, but everything else<BR>
>I am in complete agreement with.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm. I've been picking up gurps since MTM. I was an avid TFT player. GURPS<BR>
mechanics are firmly grounded in the early 80's. No real concessions to<BR>
standardized difficulties, a concept that began to flourish in the late<BR>
80's (CF StarWars, T2300/2300AD, T2K 1stEd, MT). Huge list of narrow<BR>
skills, vs the later approach of broader skills with specializations. 3d6<BR>
based mechanics, which finally started to cease being the industry standard<BR>
in the mid to late 80's, with the above system; almost every game from the<BR>
early 80's and late 70's uses the classic 3d6 or 3-18 attribute ranges;<BR>
Just to name a few that kept this standard: Mechwarrior (1e), Palladium,<BR>
The Arcanum, V&V, S&S, D&D, GURPS, Space Opera, Jorune, and even T2300, T2K<BR>
1e, Star Patrol, and almost anything by FGU...... Traveller was distinctive<BR>
by using 2d6 for attributes; later period games began getting away fromthe<BR>
3-18 model in the mid 80's: Talislanta (0-normed), Shadowrun (1-6 range for<BR>
humans), Ars Magica (0 normed), Mechwarrior 2e (1-6)[early 90's, IIRC],<BR>
Star Wars (ratings in Dice)[86-87], Torg (log based atts, 5-12, norm of 8).<BR>
The 90's have seen much more experimentation with attribute ranges and<BR>
basises, not to mention mechanics.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not saying the GURPS rules are unplayable, but I find them to show very<BR>
clearly their age of origin, plus they show their TFT roots. I also find<BR>
many of the bits in GURPS counter intuitive, but I find the same about<BR>
Mechwarrior 1st Ed, Palladium'ss rifts-compatable series of games, Jorune,<BR>
and Space Opera. They are all games I found I needed to have the rules in<BR>
my lap to run the game (I don't play at tables, but in the living room).<BR>
Traveller, D&D, Star Wars, Ars Magica, and Storyteller, they are designed<BR>
so that the mechanics are easy to memorize, easy to run, and only 2-3 pages<BR>
of tables  MIGHT crop up in play.<BR>
<BR>
Then again, I think the best effort I've seen in the last 10 years on any<BR>
game was DragonLance Fifth Age. I love it as a GM. Slick, Well presented,<BR>
easy to teach and to run, and card based. Getting players to understand the<BR>
following has been the problem, though: "The cards are effectively like<BR>
having four dice, already rolled, sitting in frount of you, and getting to<BR>
choose which one you will use as it sits. Once used, you reroll it."<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1480<BR>
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